Of course there as ‘attraction’ going on here – that’s how life works! glad you see that! Absolutely I know my attraction reason – do you?

Which wonderfully gave me another opportunity to release something and grow,

Take care and of course we can have different beliefs, that is what contrast is.

Mel xo

Well, hello again. Ahem!

I absolutely do believe it is appropriate. Is it empowering of you to suggest it is my wounds speaking? You hardly know me…

It seems as if you constantly want to paint me as advocating powerlessness. Why is that when I have clearly stated the opposite? You stated that we attract everything and everyone in to our lives. That is a pretty broad contention and I’m merely challenging that by reference to natural events and examples of human cruelty.

I still agree with you 100% that we give away our power in relationship with a narcissist and that it is entirely our work to heal ourselves and regain our power. But it is important not to leave victims of misfortune, be it natural or human, with the idea that they attracted it. It was not our fault. That doesn’t mean we do not have issues to deal with to heal why we allowed some situations to continue. But try telling a cancer sufferer or a rape victim, particularly if they were close to you, that they attracted that… That is law of attraction taken to really quite a distasteful degree. You cannot say “everything and everyone” and then say these other instances are somehow irrelevant because your focus is on narcissistic abuse. I hope you can see that.

There is actually quite a lot of material on the web now which is taking a more critical look at “The Secret” and the Law of Attraction movement. Kyra Speaks is an example of that and there are many other examples, not just one ‘article’.

My own therapist, who is a spiritual lady with many, many years’ experience and specialism in narcissistic abuse also sees the law of attraction as quite narcissistic (though only when I raised the subject, having come to that conclusion myself).

Anyway, I am not relying on anyone else’s authority. This is my own experience and I express it authentically. Others will make up their own mind and a blog is an ideal place for debate. I’m glad you agree about that.

Perhaps you attracted me to make you re-think your own beliefs. Or perhaps I attracted you…

With every good wish

AWM

Hi AWM,

Truly this is a good debate, and thank you for replying again.

I totally agree with you that your friends could have been a lot more empathetic.

I think the ‘danger’ here for people in this community – which is of course prolifically about narcissistic abuse – is the beliefs of powerlessness, and that we cannot be effectively empowered against being abused by Narcissists, which sadly is a societal victim belief which I am adamant about disproving.

I have seen that belief destroy so many lives for decades. People who are too terrified to ‘live’ after narcissistic abuse, and / or people who hold those fears who attract narcissistic abuse over and over again – as a result of attracting what they fear.

In no way does empowerment and the belief of being healthy on an inner level – constitute ‘magical thinking’ and being ‘unsafe’. It is a knowing of not being abused again, which firmly means – I know the warning signs, I am no longer co-dependent and living out my inner wounds with the attraction of them through others, and I can honour my emotions and leave rather than endure, because of the inner work I have done and my growth.

None of which could have taken place unless I was willing to take personal responsibility – which is the number one necessity for healing.

Hence why Narcissists never heal, change or grow!

How on earth is that taking responsibility ‘dangerous’. Dangerous thinking is ‘I am healed’ or ‘i am a victim’ or ‘i was not responsible (it was random)’ whilst still carrying fears and beliefs of ‘this was outside my power’. Those beliefs simply create more victimization.

This blog is not to do with tsunamis! It is to do with people who have been narcissistically abused!

I am not focused on a mission of tsunami victims, and if I was I would still be applying the identical inner healing processes to rid the trauma out if their bodies, so that they could live their fullest life possible without fear afterwards!

Otherwise they could potentially stay stuck in a terrible emotional existence indefinitely! And certainly I wouldn’t be espousing my belief that vibrationally somehow there was a match up – it wouldn’t be necessary.

I can assure you with narc abuse victims it is – because it is very easy to stay stuck in blaming a narc, rather than address deeply healing self.

Time and time again it is proven what happens with anti movements. Look at what happens to every narc abuse victim who stays focused on the injustice and the narcissist and pushes back. It gets worse. Whatever their focus is on just increases.

What happens when they turn to a ‘pro’ movement of their own healing? The pain and the emotional charges release, the narcissists punishing behaviour gets thwarted, and the justices start to fall into place – without exception.

Whenever anyone focuses on their OWN responsibility of well being, life provides it – personally. And if everyone did that the collective would supply it.

If any of us want to improve conditions it is only going ‘pro’ that creates it. Fighting ‘against’ never created any reform, peace, global improvement or more food. Look at countries, religion and politics for that evidence – in fact look at the entire world.

I personally know of many spiritual Law of Attraction people who do incredible ‘pro’ work improving conditions for mankind, disadvantaged people, the planet and animals. These people are living glorious missions as callings from their hearts and souls. They are living Who They Are, which is what real Law of A is all about – lining up with the Real You.

Many authentic spiritual people have incredible ‘callings’ that are not focused on the negatives, they are focused in the glory of solutions,

That is pure Law of attraction granting the irrefutable evidence of ‘pro’ as opposed to ‘anti’.

AWM I have a responsibility here to adamantly supply an environment that assists people to thrive and leave behind their pain, and not get stuck in it – and I am very protective of what I know works, as a result of being close up and intimate with thousands of people’s cases over the years.

Hence why this conversation has gone on as long as it has, and why I will not join you In agreeing with these points that I know do not assist this community to get out of their pain.

Honestly I believe, and it’s understandable and I do empathize, with your narcissistic abuse experience – being tied up with Law of Attraction people – significantly your ex narc – is the true cause for beliefs here, and the need to attack L of A as being narcissistic, and quote holocausts, tsunamis, children and an ‘article’ as evidence.

But really given the mission and healing of this community, ask yourself honestly – was it appropriate, or is it your wounds speaking?

Is it worth putting doubt in people’s mind of their ability to personal empower to an absolute level above narc abuse?

Respectfully Mel xo

“From what you write you didn’t believe you had any part of the ‘abandonment’…yet you state there are things you could grow from? Surely the parts that hurt you the most, would be the most important parts to grow and heal via. Otherwise what is the point of being involved in situations that hurt?”

I did not say I had no part in the abandonment but I would insist that I deserved better from my friends who used LoA to justify their lack of empathy, even though that experience has led me to personal growth and understanding.

I am glad you were able to shift your beliefs and heal your relationship with your parents. I too have healed an important relationship in my family with a similar shift. And yes I have listened to your Thriver radio shifts. I have already said that positive thinking and re-connecting with our own inner power are essential to personal growth.

Where I disagree is that everything and everyone in our lives are a result of our attracting them. That is unhelpful magical thinking to victims of, say, the tsunami or, as I mentioned before, the holocaust. It makes me profoundly uncomfortable to hear that.

Abe and LoA can lead to passivity in the social sphere where we are encouraged not to fight against injustice or global poverty for example because we are giving it negative energy. We give away our collective power when we do that.

Do read the blog I linked to (not mine!). We live on so many different levels, not just the that of the individual creator… x

Hi AWM,

I went to those extremes really due to you bringing up holocaust victims as an argument against your narc abuse experience – or so it seemed….

I do believe that everyone without exception can only be involved in an ‘event’ if some part of them is a vibrational match for it.

Hence the incredible and often freaky ways people ‘miss’ events and other incredible ‘coincidental escapes’ and ‘miracles’ that defy all logical explanation.

So where do we ‘draw the Line’. From what you write you didn’t believe you had any part of the ‘abandonment’…yet you state there are things you could grow from? Surely the parts that hurt you the most, would be the most important parts to grow and heal via. Otherwise what is the point of being involved in situations that hurt?

You say people dont possess that consciousness yet. That’s interesting because I am in contact every day with people who focus at releasing their limiting beliefs, shift them at subconscious levels, and the outer (even including abusive narcs) automatically falls into place.

My life works like this too – on more levels than I could explain, including a 46 year disconnection with my parents, healed immediately when I shifted my inner beliefs regarding the relationship with them.

So there you go for ‘us’ as humans not having that level of power…

Have you read the Thriver blogs or listened to the radio shows. Not one of those ladies believes they don’t have incredible personal inner ability to change their inner and outer world beyond description.

Mel xo

Hi Melanie

You set up polar opposites – random universe versus energetic design, empowerment versus powerless victimisation. These are dichotomies which I do not accept.

I am saying we have aspects of power which we must cultivate but there are other aspects which are not in our control and we need to recognise that too. That is not a random universe.

At the level of the Universal Self, yes, things are working out towards growth and realisation of who we really are. But the individual self does not possess that consciousness (yet) nor that degree of power.

We are the Infinite experiencing the finite.

Peace. 🙂

Hi AWM,

We will need to agree to disagree in the theory of a random universe as opposed to an energetic design.

I have never been a fan of The Secret, because it is way too simplistic to believe that you can just ‘think positive’ and ‘get stuff’. After studying Abraham you would be well aware that our beliefs and inner subconscious programming needs to be addressed, especially if it is extreme.

Personally I much prefer in vibrational growth and responsibility (empowerment) rather than beliefs of powerless victimization. And yes it was harsh what they said, and at the time you needed validation and support, and the time to work out your own inner programming on ‘what had gone wrong’. This is what we all needed to do to recover from narc relationships. Absolutely I had internal terror of abandonment which played out with numerous bouts of devalue and discard. And that was one of my flawed beliefs that kept me in the game with the narc. Cleaned up, there is no way I would have continued after the first bout.

THAT is growth awareness, and personal evolution – because I’ll be darned if I am ever going to co-create and play that out again!

I have never seen a narcissist be empowered, they act out as a result of powerlessness. Many do describe themselves as spiritual and even empowered, but when their life becomes uncomfortable and their narc behaviour emerges its always someone else’s fault.

Ego is not taking personal responsibility, it is ego – and that is not what law of attraction is about. Ego is ‘I win / you lose’ and I will take, harm and diminish to make myself ‘better’.

Ego / narcissism is not spiritual or vibrational responsibility.

Therefore I strongly disagree that people who live law of attraction purely are narcissists – because Narcissists live as anything but those laws.

Mel xo

Many thanks for replying, Mel 🙂

I was a big Abraham fan, watching all the DVDs and listening to recordings. I met the principle narcissist in my life in a spiritual circle and along with two other friends we studied LoA enthusiastically. When I was devalued and discarded by the N after another round of lies and stonewalling I was saddened to find my two good ‘friends’ also abandoned me in my deepest hour of pain because my talking about such ‘negativity’ was adversely affecting their vibration.

Later when I tried to mend one of the friendships I was told I had *created* that sense of abandonment myself. I was shocked to hear that. It was quite a wake up call to realise that LoA could be used to avoid personal responsibility for how our behaviour affects others.

I now believe it is fundamentally narcissistic to believe that the universe reconfigures itself constantly in response to our own thoughts and feelings. Of course, positive thinking allied with action will enormously help us in our life’s journey but we must not confuse in spiritual terms the ‘self’ (the individual human consciousness) with the ‘Self’ (the universal consciousness). There’s a good blog on this subject which puts it better than I can here – http://www.stuartdavis.com/blog/secret-spirituality-narcissism-0

It’s quite a stretch to believe that the Jews were a vibrational match to the gas chambers or that children who were abused have beliefs which attract that abuse, isn’t it?

I agree our true power comes in reconnecting with our own spiritual source, by validating and loving our authentic selves and not seeking approval outside of us. But our world is also affected by elements over which we have no power – the natural world and the actions of others. It’s too simplistic to believe we are the only creators in our experience.